If you read my blog, then you know I’m a big fan of Will Manley’s blog, Will Unwound. The posts are well considered, and the comments are insightful. He has many loyal followers.
If you read Will Unwound, then you know that there’s been a series of recent posts about the library job market, library science master’s degrees, and the value (or not) of online library science degree programs. The implicit message underlying all these posts and the comments seems to be that an online education is inferior to a classroom education and that these programs are not selective and are churning out library science graduates like crazy and glutting the market. There also appears to be some misconception about online education in general. Please visit Mr. Manley’s blog and read some of the recent discussion threads.
I’ve had to defend my online degree in various venues in the past month, and I am frankly surprised. In fact, just over a month ago, I received this email from a prospective online student-
I came across your blog while researching the Clarion University Library Science Master’s program. I haven’t found much in my research in regards to how students like the program overall, or how potential employers view the degree. Could you give me some insight into the experiences that you and your classmates had with the program? What kind of jobs did your fellow peers end up getting with the degree? Does the degree say that it was an online program/has the degree been ‘looked down upon’ so to speak, because it was fully online? Do you feel you lost something in not going to ‘offline’ classes?
Since up until this past month, I have never had to defend my degree, this was part of my answer-
I remember being in your shoes and worrying that the online degree would be snubbed. But that has not been the case, and I have never been asked how I obtained my degree. Taking classes online was the only way I could go to school full time, work full time, and tend to a family full time. It was a lifesaver.
It is somewhat ironic that I now find myself writing a post to defend my online degree! And if the person who wrote to me is still reading my blog–sorry! I really meant what I said at the time!
Before you even say to yourself, “Well…most of Will’s readers are older and retired or nearly retired, so…” Not so fast. Will’s blog isn’t the only venue where I’ve had to defend my degree. The other venues are populated by working librarians who are not even close to retirement age. (I suspect it’s also not true that Will’s readers are mostly older and retired. It’s definitely not true that even if they are older and retired they are out of the loop.). A fairly young librarian actually said, “I don’t believe in online education.”
I should say up front that I’m a big believer in traditional classroom education. There’s more to learning than just reading and writing and completing assignments. Part of a good education includes great discussion. And if you think that’s missing from online classes, well, you’re wrong.
One of the biggest components of my online education was the discussion board. I often learned more from my fellow students than I did from my professors. It was a rich environment, albeit a virtual one. And it took much more time to write a thoughtful post or response than it would have taken to simply answer a question in a real classroom.
We had group assignments; we had papers to write and share. We had to prepare presentations and archive them for listening/viewing. We were required to visit libraries. We were required to do lots and lots of reading. There were guidelines and rules and restrictions. There were lecture notes and recordings from the professors. There were a few real-time discussions and presentations. I learned. I contributed. I collaborated. We all did.
What about this kind of education, exactly, is not real? Or easy? Or inferior?
The only thing missing was our asses in the classroom chairs. Instead, our asses were in our own chairs in our own homes, or in our own offices, or reclining on chaise lounges in the backyard. I guess the other thing missing was personal interaction between the professor and the student. A good teacher is valuable indeed. This I know. However, it is still possible to learn without that physical presence. And all professors are not created equal. And neither are all online or traditional library science programs.
I may have to concede the point that because it is more convenient to get an online education, there are more students graduating from library school than ever before. And it’s no secret that there aren’t enough jobs. But that’s not exclusive to library science–there are many other online programs for all sorts of vocations. And there aren’t enough jobs anywhere.
I doubt that the many problems that libraries face can be pinned to online library science degree programs. And I know that wasn’t necessarily the argument being made. I would hate to see such an issue divide the profession at a time when we need to be united to find answers to the very real problems that face libraries and librarians. Does anyone really believe that someone who graduated from a top, traditional library school will always have more to offer the profession than someone who graduated from “Laptop U?” Is that a given? No.
Any education–online or in a classroom–is as good as what the student makes of it. There are certainly ways to skimp on work in an online course just as there are ways to skimp on work in a classroom setting. It comes down to motivation and self-respect and work ethic. Do we need more traditionally educated librarians? Or do we need more librarians who think differently and behave differently and see the world differently? I’d argue we need the latter and those kinds of graduates can and do come from any program.
A quick note about entrance requirements. Should the GRE be required for admittance to all library schools–online and traditional? Why? I’m not a fan of standardized testing, and I don’t see it as a very accurate indication of what a person is capable of doing in school or in the real world.
One thing I learned very early on in this profession is that the MLS (or equivalent) is the key to unlock the magic door. But it only promises admission to the club. It doesn’t guarantee that it will be comfortable, or that there will be room to dance, or that the drinks won’t cost a fortune. But without that key, you’ll need to be admitted as the guest of a member. And you won’t have the same privileges. You may be allowed to dance and order drinks, but you’ll probably have to stand and offer your seat to a member if the need arises. And it will be loud. And your voice will not be heard.
So, in a way, it really does come down to getting that piece of paper. I’m not sure how you get it matters nearly as much as what you do with it. Now a bigger question would be whether that piece of paper should be the key to the magic door. And that’s another discussion as is the concern over the deprofessionalization of librarianship.
I’ve asked my fellow classmates (if you want to know more about us, click here) to offer some insight and opinions with regard to our online degrees. I hope to share those insights and opinions in my next post. Stay tuned-
Wonderful post. I believe that some people actually benefit more from online programs. I know several people who stated that there writing and ability to engage in discussion was made easier in online classes. Their thought processes were clearer and they were able to engage better with the material. I’ve seen children and adolescence with ADHD and ADD be able to complete school assignments (especially high school assignments) when part of the component was online with better performance.
Personally, I learned a great deal about myself when I had online components. How I study, how I complete assignments, and how to structure information for my students now.
What seems to be happening is that people are looking for a scapegoat for the current job market and condition of the MLIS degree which I do not see the point. If we do find “who to blame”, what next? To me, it seems to late to point fingers. Besides, a number of factors accorded to make conditions the way they are.
It is really too bad that librarians have taken this point of view. When the assumption about the field is that we look down our nose at people, it is rather sad that we do it internally.
As far as defending your degree, I understand that to some extent. In many situations, I’ve had to defend my presence in masters programs and as a librarian (I can actually do what the librarians can do). It is tiring. But it is all about how you optimize that degree, which I think that is the key that everyone seems to be missing.
Thank you, A.E.! You are always a voice of reason and make so much sense. Thanks very much for your comment. I hope more people chime in on this discussion. I actually received a few comments by email from those who didn’t feel comfortable posting publicly, which I can understand.
I love this post. I have recently been discussing online education quite a bit, even before the Forbes article. I attended a school (UNT) where the majority of classes were available online, but since I literally lived within walking distance, I took many of the face to face options. I honestly feel that I got the same great experience from both the face to face and the online classes. I truly believe you get out of a class what you put into it- face to face or not.
In our profession, distance education is huge. It’s not going anywhere. So I find it a little bit ironic that there are librarians who don’t see the value of a distance course.
Thanks for your comment. I also find it ironic that in a profession where many feel devalued by other professionals and by society, those same librarians are devaluing their peers just because of where they went to school.
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I think this is such a great post. As much as I personally learn better from an in-person “traditional” classroom setting, I took nearly half my classes in my MLIS program online and met many people for whom online courses and programs were a boon. I find the distaste (such as terms like “laptop grads”) to often have an undercurrent of snobbery, which is nasty and not what you would expect from people who are ostensibly interested in providing as many kinds of educational opportunities possible to patrons and users.
Thanks for your comment–I agree!
I suppose online courses are a lot like in-person courses in that it can really be a hit or miss. Some online classes are great if you have an engaged professor and classmates, just like in-person classes can be terrible if you have a poor professor and/or classmates who aren’t engaged. I took some classes (in-person) that had an online component which helped to augment the discussions we had in class. The interesting thing about online dialog is that it allows for everyone to post something, whereas an in-class discussion can exclude those that aren’t as comfortable speaking in front of large groups.
That is a great point. There are people who would definitely avoid making comments in a real classroom. And some people express themselves better in writing. Thanks for commenting!
I am in the process of finishing up my online MLIS degree from UNT. It\’s been an interesting experience. I found out that my strength is not in being a traditional librarian but as a information systems person. I took all the programming classes they offered and wish there had been more. Just like in a traditional school, I had some excellent instructors and some that should have been fired. I did have to travel once a semester for face to face instruction so in many cases I had the opportunity to meet my instructors. I\’ve been lucky that I belong to a cohort of students from different northern states and we have a closed Facebook group where we could whine and congratulate each other on our achievements. It\’s been great to have that connection as a distance student.
My cohort has a Facebook group, too! We have been out of the program for 1 1/2 years, and our Facebook group is still going strong. It is a wonderful place to connect with some wonderful people. It’s nice to know there are other, similar groups, too. Thanks for your comment!
Thank you for the great post!
I went through the University of Alabama’s online program, which has limited cohorts to 40 students a year and all the classes were live lecture. I met most of my professors and classmates during the one time required trip down to Alabama.
It was a great program, and not at all easy! The professors also took an interest in their online students, and my classmates often met during off hours in the virtual “classroom” to work on projects together.
I think there is a misconception about online programs and the amount of work they take in comparison to in-classroom ones. I spent four years at a physical university working on my undergraduate degree and in no way felt that the online classes I took were inferior to those on took on campus.
I also think there is a great benefit in online programs as they do not cause a glut in a specific region. Professional and paraprofessional library jobs are few and far between in the areas that do have schools that offer an MLS. I’ve heard many the graduate students complain about the difficulty getting on the job experience. The online degree allows students to avoid a glutted market and gain one of the most important thing for job seekers, real life experience.
True the job market is tough, and online degrees make it easier to enroll in a graduate program. But I’ve never felt that a degree guaranteed me a professional job; that is my own responsibility.
Thank you for your perspective. And I couldn’t agree more with your last sentence. Amen.
Cool post and blog!
I especially like your description of the MLS/MLIS as being the magic that opens the door without it being a guarantee of a place on the dance floor.
Very poetic and right on the proverbial money!
Thank you so much, Linda! Welcome!
When I took online library classes, professionals in offices near me were great resources. I walked across the building to ask the head of technology for an entire library system how often computer blocks are removed for requested access of adult material. A cataloger about 20 feet away kindly demonstrated for me how the textbook abstractions of cataloging work on the job. And these are only examples. I have to admit, my courses were just for a humble technical assistant diploma, but isn’t it likely that the combination of working full time and taking online classes commonly leads to rich learning opportunities like these? Your degree, your classes are what you make of them.
“Humble technical assistant diploma?” Not everybody takes the extra steps to get that certification. Be proud! And I agree with your last line, absolutely.
I’m currently an online student completing my MLS. I have taken both online courses and on-campus courses. In my opinion, I’ve learned more, worked harder, and have been able to connect more with students and professors through my online courses.
One semester I traveled 80 miles twice a week to attend on-campus courses. One course was very interactive and the other was simply sitting for three hours listening to the professor read word for word from her PowerPoint presentation. I agree with Rebecca, there is a misconception about the amount of work required for an online course. When entering my undergraduate and graduate studies I remember counselors advising me, “When selecting online courses remember for every hour you would spend working on assignments for an on-campus course, you will need to double that amount of time for an online course”, and I have found this to be pretty accurate!
I agree! Posting to those discussion boards takes up so much time! Thanks for your comment.
I had both traditional classes and online classes as part of my masters experience. It would be difficult to generalize, as so much actually depended on the quality of the professor and to a certain extent the quality of your classmates. Even so, I will venture to say that my online classes were generally more focused, definitely more outcome oriented, and in some ways more valuable just because we were forced to engage with technology in ways that we weren’t in the traditional classroom. For instance, there was no way to collaborate on group work other than to dive into all of the various tools out there, and wrestle with them as they were not yet the streamlined tools they are now. Meanwhile, I had a professor in the classroom who had trouble properly configuring a power point and so chose to drone on and on and on turning what should have been an interesting class into snoozefest. You can’t successfully hide in an online class the way you can in a traditional classroom, because every thing you do, or don’t do is documented. Finally, the relative anonymity of the online environment meant that there was a relatively low b.s. quotient during the discussions. BS routinely was called out or questioned in ways that just didn’t happen in classroom discussions. If you expressed an opinion you had better be prepared to defend it. Part of that was simply that the entire class had a chance to respond to your comments not just the first person to raise their hand.
Excellent! Thank you, Ed. May I use your comments as part of my follow-up post?
Feel free, Bonnie.
I want to touch on a few things in this post and in the comments. (Full disclosure: I am based in a state without an LIS program and did my MLS degree fully online in a non-cohort program on a part-time basis while I worked in a library full-time. I belong to the Online Defender Camp, as this was the only viable option for me. I did not consider the $43,000, conditionally-accredited program just outside my home state to be inside the realm of possibility, for both cost and quality reasons.)
I agree fully with your point regarding the online discussion board requirements and the thought needed to craft a substantial, coherent response. This leads me to my next note: while I don’t feel that a GRE should be required for admission to a program, I grow increasingly convinced that a set of writing samples ought to be part of the application package. Written communication is extremely important for an online program, not only for the usual research papers but for also for the online discussion board component that you mention. Additionally, I’ve been employed in this industry for a few years now and witness the importance of written communication daily, especially as we ask our administrations for more resources and as we justify our activities. We must be able to communicate clearly and effectively and I strongly feel that writing ought to be emphasized more in the LIS curriculum.
Finally, I want to add something to what Ed Miller mentioned above regarding the anonymity of being online. I agree completely that the online environment engenders more frank and informed discussion, and that’s great. What’s less great is the lack of accountability I experienced during group projects and the like because we hadn’t forged personal connections. In more than one course I had group members (typically randomly assigned) go off the grid, never to be heard from until the night before a major project was due. I assume we’ve all had freeloaders in face-to-face classes, but in my experience the situation was made much worse online because, it seemed to me, there was less of a reminder that there were actual humans (as opposed to some name you see on a screen) unfairly burdened in the course of a project. As I mentioned in the opening, mine was a non-cohort program, so that certainly could be a source for lack of cohesion online.
Thank you for this blog post and for a great discussion here!
Thank you for adding to the discussion. You’ve made some great points. I personally disliked group projects in the online environment–they were too difficult to coordinate. Interesting (and good) idea about the writing sample. It is extremely important to be able to express yourself on those discussion boards and in the real world after library school.
I’m sorry to say, but the anti-online-education folks are just sticking their heads in the sand. Politically, online education is the way of the future, at least in my region. When I step out of my university library and attend education conferences, that’s what they’re talking about — increasing online programs to make degrees more accessible while ensuring that online courses are done well. There seems to be a lot more money going toward training instructors/professors in how to teach well online than there is toward training them to teach well in person.
My library science degree was in a hybrid program. The only class I had that met every week was a cataloging class, while the rest either met mostly online with 3-6 face to face meetings per semester or were entirely online. As someone else mentioned in a previous comment, I can’t say that I noticed any significant difference in rigor between the different formats (though there were differences between professors!). My two most challenging courses were actually entirely online, but both were with the same professor, so I credit that to the professor, not the format.
The one face to face component of my program that I think everyone should have to do was an unpaid internship for course credit. It didn’t have to be face to face at the school, but it was face to face interaction and instruction in a library. Of course, my program offered waivers for those who already work in a professional capacity at a library, but that meant doing tasks normally assigned to degree-holders — so even a full time circ employee would benefit from learning other aspects of librarianship that are normally above her/his pay grade. And, it didn’t matter where the library was — the person who oversaw the practicum credits lived a couple of states away from my university, so that was all done online anyway! But that actual hands-on experience was the best 3 credit hours of my degree.
While I was in library school (1992-1994), I remember some of the professors working their tails off, teaching both classroom and long distance classes. The long distance classes had to be taught in a special room on campus, using the satellite system for the state, to offer MLIS classes to people across Wisconsin who couldn’t drive to Madison to get their degrees. Other than a professor now being able to teach these classes from their office and students from their homes, I’m not seeing a huge difference in the concept between what Wisconsin was doing then and “laptop u.”s now. So I guess I’m a supporter of online education, even though I was a b-and-m student myself.
(Posting this here and on Will’s blog; forgive the duplication!)
Thanks for your comments. Interesting perspective!